47 responses so far ↓

• 1 Michael // Jun 25, 2007 at 9:31 am

  Thanks for the round up Travis, those are some fantastic theories. Though I find the need to read less theories more encompassing as time draws near to DH. I don’t know why. Does anyone else feel the say way? I find myself wanting to read the books more. I don’t want to expect too much or set my hopes on any one particular theory. I want to enjoy this last book for what it is.

  And how did everyone go on their WOMBATS? I got a Poor. :S For those who passed, was there a gift of sorts? I hear there is nothing DH related…

• 2 Travis Prinzi // Jun 25, 2007 at 9:48 am

  Michael, yeah, I hear ya. I haven’t done much other listening or reading to HP stuff apart from the books and my own work for Prophecy.

  Sad to say, I know nothing about the WOMBATS. I’m woefully ignorant of JKR’s site.

• 3 Mrs. Weasley // Jun 25, 2007 at 1:08 pm

  Michael, I’m with you on feeling less and less like reading theories at this point. Plus, tempers seem to be running hot :-).

  I took the WOMBAT days and days ago but haven’t gotten anything back yet. I fear that means I got a Troll.

• 4 Mia // Jun 25, 2007 at 1:37 pm

  Mrs. Weasley, no you didn’t get a Troll! Just enter your ID number on the Student’s Card to get your result.

  Michael, I passed the test with an E, but there’s no gift.

• 5 Mrs. Weasley // Jun 25, 2007 at 6:50 pm

  Oh Mia, bless your heart, thank you for telling me that. I’m a little embarrassed to say that I got an “Outstanding” - and I’ve been invited to apply for a position at Hogwarts!

  And Michael, sadly, there’s no gift, unless you count my potential new career :).

• 6 Michael // Jun 25, 2007 at 9:14 pm

  Hee thanks guys! Oh well. After all that I expected SOMETHING, though I think something went wrong there and she released them later than she thought she would have had to. Being as close as it is to the release date, I can hardly see her giving us anything. I think she should have done the test after DH, and given us a nice piece of back story that wasn’t in DH as it was not entirely necessary.

  I think this feeling of not wanting to read up on too many theories is because 1. I’ve been doing it for the best part of five years, 2. I don’t want to get any ideas in my head as to how the series will play out, and 3. This is my time to come to terms with the series ending. God knows I don’t want to spoil that by say heading down to Red Hen and end up getting depressed at how bleak those ‘theories’ are. This series, as of now has been nothing short of awesome. I want to celebrate that in my own time I guess by taking the time to read parts of the series I love and just speculating within small communities with educated fans such as you fine selves.

• 7 Pip // Jun 25, 2007 at 10:24 pm

  I’ve been feeling the same way, Michael. I don’t want to hear anymore theories. I’m reviewing the books again and I think I’ll refrain from any further speculating on them except to myself. Besides, as Mrs. W said, tempers are running hot. There are some who tend to take negative stances no matter what the topic. I’m not a negative person and I’m a negotiator. I try to buffer the negativity. Doesn’t always work.

  I’ve enjoyed reading and hearing Travis’ comments. He’s done a fantastic job of providing food for thought and speculation. AND all this with job, school and family. Bless you, Travis. I salute our beloved host!

  Been nice talking to all of you folks. My wish for you is a big comfy chair, peace and quiet, and a icy pumpkin juice as you relish Book 7.

• 8 Travis Prinzi // Jun 25, 2007 at 11:09 pm

  Pip, thanks so much for all of your insightful and helpful contributions here. To the extent that the hot tempers have gotten in the way, I’m sorry. I’ll be continuing to do my best to keep that sort of thing at bay!

  If you have the time, please do rejoin us after you’ve read Deathly Hallows! I wish for you the same comfy chair, peace and quiet, and ice cold pumpkin juice. Happy Reading on July 21.

• 9 Reyhan // Jun 25, 2007 at 11:10 pm

  The clock says there are 25 days left to go. I had told myself there was no sense in ordering an advance copy, as there’d be no shortage of copies, but the other day I ordered it anyways. I look at the little ticket - it sits in the console of my car, awaiting the day - and it makes July 21st seem a little bit closer.

  I would like to spend the last 25 days in the company of the people who have made the last few months enlivening, stimulating, fun and thought provoking. Even if I’m not commenting - and I’m feeling less and less of a need to argue the points that come up - I’d still like to share the experience of waiting.

  Unless of course someone says something truly outrageous, or offers a solution to the puzzle of Petunia, or can prove that Great Aunt Muriel’s tiara actually belonged to Rowena Ravenclaw. And I’m back in like a kid in a candy factory.

• 10 Travis Prinzi // Jun 25, 2007 at 11:36 pm

  Ha! Yeah, that about sums it up, Reyhan. Aside from with my wife, I can’t imagine any other folks I’d rather be sharing these last 25 days with then you all. Hopefully the recent flaring of tempers will die down, and we’ll have a relatively exciting and peaceful 25 days.

  25 days…so much work left to do before prophecy!

• 11 Eeyore // Jun 26, 2007 at 12:18 am

  Travis, you are going to force me to actually finish something I’ve started. I’m not so much into predictions and speculating on what will happen, as trying to understand what information we already have and how it fits together. And I really don’t plan to argue with anyone–it really is just a place to put down some of the things I’ve been noticing as I’m re-reading Order of the Phoenix and Half-Blood Prince–pretty much at the same time.

  Michael, I perfectly understand what you mean though. I’ve been reading these books since sometime in 1999, and have been on one forum or another since early 2001. That’s a long time. I just want to get my book, curl up in front of the fire with a nice pot of tea (or several), and read till I’m done. I would like to read slowly, but I don’t want to take the chance that someone on TV or in the newspaper with a headline, or some random person in the store blurts out what happens before I get to read it for myself.

  I want the same sort of feeling I had when I read the first three books, and no one I knew (except my daughter) was reading them (at least not that I knew–of course, people were reading them, but you know what I mean, I hope).

  I really am trying to distance myself from a lot of the theories, especially the ones that I particularly like, so I won’t be disappointed when Rowling goes in a totally different direction–and I’m sure she will. They are, after all, her stories, and I just want to enjoy the last one completely.

  All that being said, however, I do still check here and on the links above to see what y’all are thinking about. It would be great if we could all sit down in the same room AFTER we’ve read Deathly Hallows and talk, face to face.

  Pat

• 12 Reyhan // Jun 26, 2007 at 12:46 am

  Pat, I’m thinking ear plugs in the line up at the book store. Or a self-induced hypnotic trance so I can’t hear anything. There are going to be parties and celebrations at the book stores - I feel sorry for the book sellers because no independent is going to make money out of this; I’ve read comments that they can buy it cheaper at the big box stores than they can get it from the publisher themselves. I want to avoid the partying and hysterical last minute conjecture. Just quiet and silence in which to read and find out what has really been going on for the last 6 books, and how it’s all going to end.

• 13 Mia // Jun 26, 2007 at 4:17 am

  I hope that not everyone will stop commenting before DH comes out! Pip, Reyhan?! There aren’t many theories left, most of them have already been covered. But people here at SoG still come up with excellent ideas that I hadn’t thought of.

• 14 Michael // Jun 26, 2007 at 6:37 am

  I’m thinking of going into total isolation. Seriously. No work, no going out partying, no nothing. Reading, eating and maybe a tiny nap are all I have install until I am done with the book.

  And now I am getting real urges to drink a cold Pumpkin juice… and it’s so very cold here in South Australia… madness.

  I love small community fandoms such as this or John Grangers forums for example, or the SpinnersCast forums, which (being a more adult podcast) attracts more of an adult HP discussion.

• 15 korg20000bc // Jun 26, 2007 at 7:14 am

  I’m sorry if I have contributed to the crankies in the recent discussions. I find it hard not to react when extreme views and sweeping statements are posted with 100% conviction. So, if I have made it a less fun place to be around I humbly apologise.

  I would hate to find out definate details of the stories and as I’m waiting to get my pre ordered copy I’ll be listening to headphones… loud. A bit anti social, but this only happens once.

  Matthew

• 16 Travis Prinzi // Jun 26, 2007 at 8:37 am

  Good thoughts, everyone. Just for the record, my intentions are to focus primarily on literary analysis for the next 24 days. For example, the primary topic of the next podcast is “Harry’s develpment in HBP.”

  Speculation has run rampant for some time, and a lot has been covered.

  I’m avoiding the bookstore scene altogether. I’m picking the book at a local 24/7 grocery store, and I’ll be reading through the night until I fall asleep. Then, Tricia and I are leaving Sophia with Nana, heading to a remote park about an hour from here and far from any media, having a picnic, and reading all day. I’ll have my laptop to jot thoughts down as I go, but no access to internet.

  I think the key to enjoying this book really is to hold very, very loosely to our theories and just let Rowling delight us. If we’re reading the book hoping and praying that our theories were right so that the HP world can know that WE got it right, we’ll be miserably disappointed - even if we DID get it right. For then, we’ll have made the books primarily about our own pride and not about the intriguing world Rowling created.

• 17 Michael // Jun 26, 2007 at 8:56 am

  Guys I must have missed it but what unpleasantness have gone down here as of late? I’m a tad behind the times it seems.

• 18 Reyhan // Jun 26, 2007 at 3:49 pm

  Travis, I do appreciate what you’re saying, about not caring more about being right than for appreciating the book, and the need to hold very, very loosely to our theories. And I agree with you. And am prepared to let go of all my theories (even the secret one that Dudders is Petunia and Snape’s love-child and that the elves were a master race of wizards who were subdued by the ancestors of the current group of wizards and made to do menial tasks and enjoy it in revenge for their past arrogance, yes, even that theory.)

  And I can appreciate JKR’s pleas for people not to post spoilers, which are well named: they would certainly reduce my pleasure in reading the book.

  But.

  JKR has been playing a game with her readers from day 1. Both sides know the rules and enter into the game willingly, so it’s completely cool. But the game is: she will tell us seemingly everything, and she will always tell the truth, while witholding the few crucial pieces of information which will turn things upside down. And for our part, we will analyze and re-analyze the pieces of the puzzle she gives us in order to guess the hidden truth.

  Spoilers break the rules of the game, so are not allowed. But the game itself is still an exciting one. It’s fun, and I can’t deny that that’s a big part of the enjoyment of the series for me.

• 19 shadowquill // Jun 26, 2007 at 3:57 pm

  I know just what you mean, Eeyore! I’ve been trying to distance myself from my favorite theories too. I’ve even been struggling to accept the exact opposite so I won’t be too disappointed if I’m wrong. It’s far too easy to become overly attached to one idea or another and forget that Rowling is the author and is entitled to do whatever she wants. She’s never written anything I wasn’t satisfied with yet (with the exception of the mounted house-elf heads at Grimmauld Place), so I should put more trust in it becoming a spectacular finish no matter how wrong all of my pet theories are.

  Then again, as Rehan said, the game is a fun one and it’s impossible to completely avoid participating. (Not that I would want to!)

• 20 Mrs. Weasley // Jun 26, 2007 at 4:55 pm

  Reyhan -

  “And am prepared to let go of all my theories (even the secret one that Dudders is Petunia and Snape’s love-child . . .”

  So you agree with me about Petunia and Snape after all???!!! Ha!

• 21 Rena // Jun 26, 2007 at 7:06 pm

  Michael, I think the “unpleasantness” is about some recent comments on the “Defending-Dumbledore-Part-II”-thread, which are very long and show a way of thinking that we do not meet very often on this site. I admit, I didn’t manage to read more than some paragraphs of each (maybe that is the reason why they didn’t bother me), but I admire the patience of those who did.

  However, I read all of the replies. And I have to say that they made me feel even more at home here at SoG, if possible. About 95% of all comments (on all the threads) show much respect and understanding for other people’s views, opinions and feelings, and, of course, for J. K. Rowling’s work. I appreciate that very much. If it wouldn’t sound so silly, I’d say “I’m so proud of you all!” And I’m happy to join Pip in praising Travis for making all this possible.

  Some of you seem to be tired of musing and theorizing, and I understand this very well. Sometimes I feel exactly like that. But, then again, I can’t stop thinking about some questions with no answers. They might be negligible, compared with the really important ones, and even completely unimportant, or might be not. So, I’ll just have a try to catch your attention for two of them. Feel free to ignore them, if you want.

  1. What was Morfin Gaunt afraid of, according to what Dumbledore told Harry in 6-17:
  “All that disturbed him [Morfin] was the fact that his fathers ring had disappeared. ‘He’ll kill me for losing it,’ he told his captors over and over again. ‘He’ll kill me for losing his ring.’ And that, apparently, was all he ever said again.”
  Morfin seems to talk about Marvolo, but he knew very well that his father was dead. Some pages before:
  “Where is Marvolo?” he [Tom] asked.
  “Dead,” said the other [Morfin]. “Died years ago, didn’t he?”
  So, who would kill him? Marvolo, from his grave? Salazar Slytherin? Some Peverell ancestor? Did he know something about the curses on the ring? Would they kill anybody who lost or destroyed it? Or did Tom Riddle just implant one too many false memory in Morfin’s mind?

  2. Why did Dobby not attend Dumbledore’s funeral? Almost everybody was mentioned to have been there, except Dobby. Well, the other house-elves have not been mentioned, either. But Dobby had a very personal relationship with Dumbledore. He adored him. He was proud to keep his secrets. He wouldn’t let anybody keep him from attending Dumbledore’s funeral, I think. We didn’t see him during the last third of Book 6. Where was he? I hope he didn’t “throw himself off the topmost tower” …

  Any ideas?

• 22 Reyhan // Jun 26, 2007 at 11:35 pm

  I am torn, Mrs. W. On the one hand, how could it be that such a complementary pair never connected, his yin to her yang, his dingy underwear, her rubber gloves, his greasy hair, her arsenal of disinfectants? But then I think of the product, Dudley, and I say to myself: how could two such thin, not to say scrawny, people produce such a hefty lad?

  I’ve got a wilder idea now. A deal DD made with Petunia, if she agreed to keep Harry.

  And the closer we get, the wilder it will get. It’s so close I am starting to see the pages of the book.

  Rena, I was initially unmoved by your two tidbits. And then I thought of Morfin being haunted, and suddenly thought of DD’s withered hand. Do you suppose the terrible curse that caused DD to lose his hand was the curse of Salazar Slytherin? And that it was invoked when the ring was put on by anyone who wasn’t Slytherin’s heir?

  And are you intrigued by the thought of what would have happened had Harry put on the ring, before DD de-activated Marvolo’s cursed ring?

• 23 Michael // Jun 27, 2007 at 12:24 am

  I know that when I say that I’m keeping away from Theories, it is mainly because I myself have been doing it for so long, I feel the need to do it no more. It’s so much fun, and a good theory is great to read BUT with the book looming ever closer, I just don’t have that urge to do much theorizing as within a few short weeks, all of it will come to nothing (well mots if my theories at least.)

• 24 Rena // Jun 27, 2007 at 10:20 am

  Reyhan, Slytherin having cursed the ring (before Voldemore put his curse on it) was indeed one of the options that came to my mind. But it didn’t satisfy me. Marvolo Gaunt was so proud of the locket being a heirloom of Salazar Slytherin that he would have mentioned it, if the ring was one, too. I doubt whether Slytherin has been the owner of that ring at all, because Gaunt only said:

  “See this? See this? Know what it is? Know where it came from? Centuries it’s been in our family, that’s how far back we go, and pure-blood all the way! Know how much I’ve been offered for this, with the Peverell coat of arms engraved on the stone?”

  There has also been too much evidence of Evil Slytherin and Good Gryffindor that it might be boring if Slytherin was also responsible for Dumbledore’s withered hand (if not more). I’d rather believe the devastating curses on the ring were all from Voldemort, but the ring itself might be connected to someone other than Slytherin, maybe even Ravenclaw or Gryffindor.

  But I still have no idea what Morfin was talking about when he said: “He’ll kill me for losing his ring”.

• 25 Michael // Jun 27, 2007 at 10:58 am

  HE said that? Hmmm, I didn’t pick up on that. Perhaps he was that delusional at that point that he thought Slytherein’s ghost would come back and kick his sorry ass?

• 26 Mrs. Weasley // Jun 27, 2007 at 12:06 pm

  Reyhan, I must confess that I never thought of Dudley as Petunia and Snape’s love child, only that perhaps Petunia and Snape were that “unlikely pairing” that JKR mentioned in an interview. Like you, I don’t think that Dudley could be the product of those two, given his heft, and JKR even says in SS that “Dudley looked a lot like Uncle Vernon.”

  I also don’t think Dudley could be a wizard, because he would have received a letter on his eleventh birthday from Hogwarts, and no such letter arrives, at least that we see. But even if the letter came and we didn’t see it because of the “Harry filter”, I would think Aunt Petunia and Uncle Vernon would appear greatly upset if they got such a letter. Also, there is never any mention of outbursts of magic such as with Harry before he turned eleven.

  And, perhaps Petunia and Snape aren’t so different after all - after all, Potions is exacting work, and I would think things had to be scrupuously clean and scrupuously measured in order to get the correct results (like Chemistry), and Snape’s appearance may simply be the result of some unfortunate genes, as Pip has so heroically suggested before. So, “unlikely pairing” may be possible with these two, but that’s as far as I’m prepared to take it!

  I’ll bite - what’s your wild theory about DD’s promise to Petunia?

• 27 Reyhan // Jun 27, 2007 at 3:00 pm

  Rena, I think you may be on to something. I agree, if there had been a connection to Salazar Slytherin, Marvolo would have boasted of it. And the Peverell coat of arms is specifically mentioned. So it’s not a Slytherin ring.

  Who are the Peverells? A quick Google showed a real life Peverell family in England (Devon) Their coat of arms features a lion.

  Not a serpent. A lion.

  “He’ll kill me for losing his ring”: Morfin is talking about the owner of the ring. It’s either Marvolo or - or whom?

  Has Morfin forgotten that Marvolo is dead, speaking about him in the present tense?

  Is Marvolo dead? DD speaks of his early death and says he did not live to see Morfin return to the cottage. And Morfin tells Voldemort “Dead. Died years ago, didn’t he?” Is this conclusive enough?

  And if Marvolo is dead (and presumably hasn’t come back as a ghost), then who is the “he” Morfin speaks about?

  An important consideration for me is the fact that there isn’t enough room in book 7 to introduce a whole new character with a whole new backstory. JKR has to be economical at this point, given all the storylines she has to tie up. So whoever “he” is, “he” has to be someone we’ve either met before, or we’ve heard about before. I think.

  Lion. Serpent. Lion. Serpent. Lion.

  Are we sure that Harry is not the Heir of Gryffindor? I remember reading that James Potter was not. But Harry had two parents.

  What happens if the blood of the Heir of Slytherin and the Heir of Gryffindor comes together? As it has.

  As it did before?

• 28 Mia // Jun 27, 2007 at 3:05 pm

  I’d rather believe the devastating curses on the ring were all from Voldemort, but the ring itself might be connected to someone other than Slytherin, maybe even Ravenclaw or Gryffindor.

  Rena, I think it might have been Gryffindor’s ring, because the Peverell coat of arms shows a lion very similar to the Gryffindor emblem.

  http://www.coats-of-arms.com/Peverell%20coat%20of%20arms.htm

  It would also be strange if there were two items from Slytherin, the locket and the ring. I rather expect there to be one item for each house. (One of my loosely held theories).

• 29 Mia // Jun 27, 2007 at 3:08 pm

  And Reyhan already mentioned it, as I see now.

• 30 Reyhan // Jun 27, 2007 at 3:15 pm

  Mrs. W., as you can see from my last post, I’m really on conjectural overdrive here. But here goes.

  Say that the Muggle Petunia had wizarding genes which did not come out in her, but which she passed on to her son. And say also that Dudders started showing signs of magical ability very early. Say that Petunia saw this and was aghast. Say that she made a deal with Dumbledore: she would take care of Harry if Dumbledore would help her keep Dudley’s abilities suppressed, and never offer him a place at Hogwarts.

  Actually, in writing this out, I see how implausible it is: the timing doesn’t work because Harry and Dudley are the same age and Petunia would already have agreed to take care of Harry by the time Dudley could show any sign of magic. Also, I can’t see DD agreeing to do this to anyone, even if the parents really wanted it.

  I wonder, still, what Dudley’s worst memory was. The one that the Dementor forced him to relive.

• 31 Mrs. Weasley // Jun 27, 2007 at 5:19 pm

  Oh boy, I feel like I’m riding in a Gringott’s car heading towards Harry’s vault. Reyhan, are you suggesting that the Peverells were related to Gryffindor and that the Gaunts were thus related to Slytherin and Gryffindor? Or do you mean something else when you say that the blood of the Heir of Slytherin and the Heir of Gryffindor may have been mingled before?

  And about Dudley - I just glanced over the beginning of OOTP again, and it never says that Dudley saw the dementors, he just talks about feeling their presence. I don’t know if Muggles can see them, but I doubt it, since at the Ministry hearing Fudge asks Mrs. Figg if Squibs can see dementors and she says of course they can. I also rather doubt that dementors can perform the kiss on Muggles, because if so, why would they bother hanging around Azkaban, waiting for their next victim, when there is a whole Muggle world full of souls out there? So you’re right in that there is something odd about Dudley if the dementor was hanging over him about to perform the kiss. But I just don’t see how he could be a wizard. Nor could he be a squib, without having one magical parent, could he?

  One last thing - I’m not so sure that JKR wouldn’t introduce a new character in Book 7. She’s certainly up to the task.

• 32 Reyhan // Jun 27, 2007 at 5:51 pm

  Sorry Mrs. W., I started two theories at once. Or rather, I ran with Rena’s theory and went off in another direction.

  Rena pointed out that Morfin’s words - his only words after being sent to Azkaban - made no sense because his father was dead. So who was he talking about?

  I made the jump, based on the lion on the Peverell family coat of arms, and the assumption that JKR wouldn’t introduce a completely unheralded character in book 7, that Godric Gryffindor might have been an ancestor of the Peverells, and that’s how they got their coat of arms, and put it on the ring. I didn’t say it outright, but I think that the ring could be GG’s.

  I don’t see how this is possible. But it seems indicated.

  Next step: how did the Gaunts originally get the ring? Marvolo talks of having it for “centuries”. Did they get it legitimately, or did one of their ancestors steal it from a Gryffindor heir, maybe GG himself? So the “he” could be GG himself, or “he” might be the ancestor who stole the ring from either GG or the Peverell family.

  If the Gaunts got it legitimately, as for example through marriage, then they would have Gryffindor blood in them. Upon reflection, I think this unlikely.

  I also started thinking, from an unrelated line of reasoning, that if Harry was the heir of Gryffindor, and Voldemort was the heir of Syltherin, then when Voldemort took some of Harry’s blood, he was combining the two bloodlines.

  Dave, on another thread, has made the link that, accepting that the ring belonged to GG, and it was a horcrux, and it was destroyed, there is no need to look for a Gyrffindor horcrux anymore. This also clears Harry, Harry’s scar, and the sword of GG, btw.

  We’re all in conjectural overdrive, I think.

• 33 Rena // Jun 27, 2007 at 7:40 pm

  I see, you understand me. Welcome to the quest!

  Reyhan and Mia, I saw that coat of arms some time ago, but there is also another one, showing 3 wheat sheaves on blue ground. (It rather looks like a Hufflepuff-Ravenclaw combination, just to complete my confusion.) There are many HP fansites out there who have discussed some Peverells, including the Earls of Chester who were in conflict with the Welsh Griffiths (from Griffin), a William Peverell being an illegitimate son of William the Conquerer (or maybe not), murder, poisoning – anything you want.

  Although JKR put some baits in her W.O.M.B.A.T. 3 texts, hinting at a possible connection between royalty and the Wizarding World, I don’t expect her to reveal that some of our beloved villains and heroes are related to Mary Stuart or Prince Charles. So, I’m completely with you, Reyhan, that we will not be introduced to a new (royal) backstory.

  But the Hogwarts founders – that’s something else. This is what I found in two different interviews:

  MA: That sort of shuts down Heir of Gryffindor [theories], as well.
  JKR: [Pause.] Yeah. Well – yeah.

  Jami: Is Harry related to Godric Gryffindor?
  JK Rowling replies -> People are always wondering who Harry might be related to. Maybe he is

  So, it’s either yes or no. Very instructive. Hmm. Probably Harry is not the Heir of but related to Gryffindor?

  I thus would like to alter your question as follows: “What happens if the blood of Slytherin and Gryffindor comes together? As it has.”

  I tend to believe that Harry is hosting a part of Voldemorts soul (because of the oneway-connection via emotions instead of thoughts), without being a horcrux (because Dumbledore would have known and told Harry, if he was). So I’ll add another question:

  What happens if a part of the soul of an evil being is trapped in the body of a host-soul that is untarnished and whole? (And what happens if that soul-piece smells a fellow soul-piece or even its master-soul somewhere outside?)

  Does all this contribute to finding an answer to our original question, who Morfin is afraid of, because he lost his ring? No, it doesn’t. But it is very interesting and it’s fun.

• 34 Reyhan // Jun 27, 2007 at 8:39 pm

  Rena, I don’t think we have any evidence for the existence of “soul pieces” aside from those residing in Horcruxes. There is a connection between Harry and Voldemort, true. It’s because of the deflected AK. It has something to do with the scar. And no, we don’t know how it works, so it’s open to conjecture. And we know two more things. The connection changed because of the blood thing. And the connection hasn’t worked since Harry came a step closer to losing his fear of death. But no evidence that a piece of Voldemort’s soul resides in Harry, or the other way around.

  I don’t see how Harry could be related to GG, without being his heir. Wouldn’t the heir be the last surviving descendant?

  Of course, if the link is through Lily Evans, there are other possibilities, as mind-boggling as they may be.

  Regardless, my short list for the identity of the one Morfin refers to as “he” is: are Marvolo (as a hallucination, a ghost, or Inferi); and Godric Gryffindor (as a spirit or a ghost).

  Maybe someone can answer this question quicker than I can look it up: whose bone did Wormtail use to concoct the grisly stew that resurrected Voldemort? Was it from the Gaunt side or the Riddle side?

• 35 Mrs. Weasley // Jun 27, 2007 at 9:08 pm

  I believe it was from Tom Riddle Senior - something about “bone of the father, unwillingly given” (don’t have the book in front of me).

• 36 Reyhan // Jun 27, 2007 at 10:17 pm

  Thanks Mrs. W.

  I just wanted to be sure that it wasn’t Marvolo’s bone - which would eliminate the possibility of him being the “he” referred to by his son.

  Must confess, I don’t know what the significance of Marvolo hanging around would be, whatever his form.

  Whereas if “he” was GG, then the possibilities are endless. Problem is, I don’t see GG having any kind of truck with someone as pathologically dysfunctional as Morfin.

  What other candidates are there?

• 37 Rena // Jun 28, 2007 at 1:57 am

  Reyhan, Neville could be related to Harry according to the Longbottom and the Potter the Black family tree. If both were related to Gryffindor, Neville could be the heir, because he is one day older than Harry.

  All the wizard families are somehow related, as Sirius said.

  And blood and genes are not everything. Remember the choices and the social aspect. The Gaunts’ choices might have been very different from those of other Gryffindor descendants.

  I have to go to work now, but I’ll try to explain my view on the soul-piece thing later.

• 38 korg20000bc // Jun 28, 2007 at 4:05 am

  I have been thinking for a while about Neville’s ancestry. In one of her interviews Rowling says something about Dumbledore and it being more profitable to look at his family rather than lollie wrappers. It struck me that, while it might have been a reference to Aberforth, the lollie wrapper comment made it a bit more pointed towards Neville’s family. I was assuming the wrappers were a reference to Neville’s mother giving him one at St Mungo’s. It seemed to me to be saying that the significance is in the family not in the wrappers. Could Neville be related to Dumbledore? Could Dumbledore have been the Heir of Gryffindor. I think most likely that Dumbledore was. He was the antithesis of Voldemort.

  Matthew

• 39 Eeyore // Jun 28, 2007 at 5:54 pm

  Oh, well see, that’s one of those theories that makes a lot of sense to me. I’m not discounting any of the others, by any means. At this point, who knows? It does seem rather odd, that comment that Morfin made about the missing ring, but then Morfin was a bit crazy and likely more so after his stay in Azkaban. He may very well have thought that his father, dead or not, would come after him in some way.

  Personally, the pet theory I’m going to find hard to let go of is that Madam Pince is really Snape’s mother–the old “I’m a Prince” anagram for Irma Pince. When I first heard it I thought it was just too silly to consider, but there is a lot of it that adds up–especially the tie in with Dumbledore offering to hide Draco and his mother, as if it’s something that he has done before. Now, of course, the Death Eaters know that Snape isn’t dead, but wouldn’t they have gone after any of Snape’s family if they were still living when he defected to Dumbledore? And mentions of Pince, a minor character, keep cropping up throughout the books, usually in close proximity to Snape–not that they are together, but she is usually mentioned soon after we’ve seen Snape doing something, as a way that connects them in our mind.

  Just another wild thought. And with that thrown into the mix, I’m off for today.

  I have to add–you are all wonderful here, and so is Travis for providing such a welcoming place for discussions and for being so patient with all of us.

  Pat

• 40 Reyhan // Jun 28, 2007 at 10:45 pm

  OK, three more questions.

  Assuming that Pince is actually Ma Snape, where does it go from there? Plotwise, is it enough for her identity to be revealed? Or does she have an active role to play in the denouement?

  My second question is this: why did Bellatrix and her cronies torture the Longbottoms until they went insane? Was it for the heck of it? Or were they trying to find out something, which the Longbottoms heroically refused to divulge? And if so, what was it?

  The location of something? Something Voldemort wanted to use? A potential Horcrux? A Horcrux he’d made and then lost? The locket, maybe?

  Finally, about the possibility of DD being the Heir of Gryffindor: Harry pulled the sword out of the Sorting Hat. What does the canon say about who is allowed to do that?

• 41 Mia // Jun 29, 2007 at 2:38 am

  Personally, the pet theory I’m going to find hard to let go of is that Madam Pince is really Snape’s mother–the old “I’m a Prince” anagram for Irma Pince.

  Pat, that’s one of my favourite theories, too, and also thought it was silly in the first place. But there are a lot of good reasons to assume that she is Snape’s mother, most of which you’ve mentioned. It makes a lot of sense to me. The one thing that struck me most is that she appeared with a veil at Dumbledore’s funeral. Why would she do that?

  Reyhan, I’m pretty sure that her true identity will be unveiled in DH and that she has an active role to play in the final instalment, although I’ve no idea what exactly it’ll be like. But we’ll certainly learn about Snape’s back-story and family, especially Eileen Prince, I assume. That’s probably why she was introduced in HBP.

• 42 Mrs. Weasley // Jun 29, 2007 at 7:07 am

  Okay, Reyhan, I’ll take a stab at these:

  Q1. No clue, really, but but if Snape is Evil or Machiavellian, then what would happen to his mother? Or maybe she would be able to influence him to come back to the Good side?

  Q2. I believe the Longbottoms were tortured because the DEs for some reason thought the Longbottoms knew where Vapormort was (the Longbottoms were Aurors, if memory serves me correctly).

  Q3. When Dumbledore talks to Harry at the end of CoS about pulling the sword out of the hat, he says something to the effect of “Only a true Gryffindor could do that.” I believe Harry had been telling Dumbledore that the Sorting Hat had considered placing him in Slytherin when this conversation took place.

  Put those through your “candy factory” and let us know what you come up with. Guess we’re all not really done theorizing yet, are we?!

• 43 Mrs. Weasley // Jun 29, 2007 at 8:15 am

  Oh, and Mia - I read a theory somewhere that if Pince is indeed Snape’s mum, and has been hidden by Dumbledore all these years, she wore the veil to disguise herself from all the outsiders at the funeral so no one would know she was still alive.

• 44 Martin // Jun 29, 2007 at 5:26 pm

  Rena has brought great stuff. I am fascinated with ideas related to Peneveral coat, but I still think Morfin was referring to Marvolo when he said that he would kill him.

  Morfin had been talking to empty chair before Voldemort attacked him. Actually when Voldemort noticed such a weakness he started appraising his possibilities, thereafter he put a charm on Morfin.

  Certainly, I agree with no points proposing Harry is not a horcrux, but there is something else I would like to discuss right now.

  Dumbledore was keeping eyes on Voldemort, who knew it. Despite the fact Voldemort kill his father and grandparents during the summer. Dumbledore manage to get memory from Morfin, unfortunately he was to lake. How come? Does Dumbledore really think so slowly? Or is there perhaps a plot hole? I guess neither of them. Although Dumbledore was Hogwarts teacher he managed to defeat Grinewald. Fighting dark wizards might be time consuming, but Dumbledore had all the summer free. He might fight Grinewald forces, perhaps out of Great Britain. That was probably the reason why he started to investigate too late. Dumbledore managed to defeat the greatest wizard of his age, but he was so busy he did not manage to stop rise of the darkest wizard ever.

• 45 Rena // Jun 30, 2007 at 8:56 am

  Reyhan, I prefer Marvolo as a hallucination from your list in # 34, because I don’t see any other plausible candidate. But maybe there is another answer to that question and we just can’t guess it because we don’t know enough about the plot yet.

  If you are interested, I posted my odd theory about Harry and Voldemort’s soul piece on the Is-Harry-a-Horcrux-thread.

• 46 Rena // Jul 1, 2007 at 10:32 am

  Godric Gryffindor is the new Wizard of the Month on JKR’s website:

  “Medieval (precise dates unknown)
  One of the four famous Founders of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, Godric Gryffindor was the most accomplished dueller of his time, an enlightened fighter against Muggle-discrimination and the first owner of the celebrated Sorting Hat.”

  His hair could be described as auburn (like young Dumbledore) or as dark red (like Lily). His eyes are GREEN. He holds his silver sword. (Helga Hufflepuff was shown with her cup, Salazar Slytherin with his locket. Will Rowena Ravenclaw hold her wand? I think she will …)

• 47 Reyhan // Jul 1, 2007 at 10:50 am

  Auburn or red hair. Like Dumbledore, Lily (and all the Weasleys). Green eyes.

  Green eyes?

  Is someone trying to tell us something?

  Is Harry the Heir of Gryffindor through his mother’s family line?

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