1175 responses so far ↓

• 1 jen white // Nov 16, 2005 at 8:14 pm

  If Voldemort made Harry a horcruxe then he wouldn’t have tried to kill him in the first place. Also Voldemort would be stronger as we know in HP6 that 7 horcruxe is the most powerfut and he does seem like he could be more powerful.

• 2 Travis Prinzi // Nov 17, 2005 at 7:56 am

  Jen, that is one of the difficulties of the Harry as horcrux theory, that Voldemort tried to kill Harry. At the same time, I think it’s at least answerable. Consider the following.

  1. We still don’t know how a horcrux is made.
  2. Voldemort was looking for a Gryffindor horcrux.
  3. Voldemort wanted to kill Harry.

  So let’s put these together. Voldemort planned to kill Harry and James at Godric’s Hollow. Being that Godric’s Hollow is most likely named after Godric Gryffindor, perhaps Voldemort believed that after killing Harry and James and so splitting his soul, he would be able to find an appropriate Gryffindor horcrux there at Godric’s Hollow. Only, his attempt to kill Harry failed, and somehow, accidentally, Harry was made into a horcrux (since Voldemort had just killed his parents, his soul would have been split).

  In Goblet of Fire, Voldemort was still unaware that Harry was a horcrux and so tried to kill him. At the end of Order of the Phoenix, Voldemort discovers that Harry is a horcrux. As book 6 opens up, Voldemort has closed his mind off to Harry, but he sends Draco on a special mission to kill whom?

  Dumbledore. Why Dumbledore? It would be easier for Draco to kill Harry than Dumbledore AND more helpful for Voldemort if Harry, his prophesies vanquisher, were dead. Furthermore, at the end of the book, Snape reminds the Death Eaters that they have explicit instructions NOT to kill Harry. Why? It would be a much safer and better route for Voldemort to have someone else kill Harry. Unless Harry is a horcrux and Voldemort knows it.

  The fact that we have to wonder why Voldemort would stop his attempts to kill Harry have to be explained somehow.

  I’m not saying I buy all this. In fact, I tend to not agree that Harry is a horcrux. But I think it’s at least possible and fascinating to consider.

• 3 Omo Akinsola // Nov 26, 2005 at 2:41 pm

  Is it only me that thinks the answer of if harry potter it a horcrux is staring at us straight in the face!!!!!

  Voldemolt killed harry’s parents that night therefore spilting his soul again in to two. When he tried to kill harry he most have intentionally or non - intenitionally made him a horcrux because is said by dumbledore himself that voldemolt accidently put some of his soul in to harry, that is why he was about to get sent to slytherin and why he can speak parseltonuge! There i’ve said it!

  PS. Maybe Voldemolt isn’t trying to kill harry and is trying to capture him for an altirier motive (all these hogwarts years)…

• 4 JNP // Nov 29, 2005 at 11:58 pm

  Harry is a Horcrux: my complete theory!

  Ok so Voldemort purposely put one of his horcrux’s in harry at Godric’s Hollow (Godric Gryffindor…I don’t know if it means anything yet). Therefore 1/7th of his soul would be implanted in Harry, explaining the whole part why Harry is a parcelmouth, they have the same wands, and can see through the eyes of BOTH Nagini and Voldemort (only other living Horcruxes).

  Now why would Voldemort willingly put 1/7th of his soul into Harry? It’s a willingful sacrifice. His last resort. But why would he try to kill Harry? Because even if he fails and Harry kills him, he’s still alive (whole point of a horcrux).

  Now…Harry must die in the last book you’re thinking. I disagree. Too dark/deep for a Childrens Book (fundamentally). You remember how Dumbledore was wearing Slytherin’s ring? Remember how he said he ‘extracted’ and destroyed the horcrux from it? Hermionie or Harry will figure out how to successfully extract it…it’s possible…just like dumbledore said.

  So there will be a final showdown. Voldemort won’t have realized (or harry will perform the spell just before to remove the horcrux) and harry will kill him, and he won’t be next to dead. He will be gone, forever.

  As to RAB: It could be one of two people already mentioned. The obvious one, Regulus Black (which co-incides with the locket found in 12 Grimmauld Place when cleaning out). The not-so-obvious one is Borgin. Remember the locket that kills people if you touch it? This was bought from Borgin (another B last name). It’s the not-so-obvious other choice.

  I’m not saying any of this is right or wrong, it’s just my theory, feel free to argue back, but hopefully respectfully. Thanks!

• 5 Travis Prinzi // Nov 30, 2005 at 12:13 am

  JNP, I try as best I can to make respectful discussion the key here. So no fear, there.

  I think you bring up some interesting points. I hadn’t yet heard someone suggest that Harry was intentionally made a horcrux. I’m not even sure this is chronologically possible, though, since Harry’s not dying took LV by surprise and took away his powers in that moment. Forgive me if I’m misunderstanding you here.

  Nagini is definitely a possible candidate for a horcrux, perhaps the accidental 7th if Harry is one and LV didn’t know it.

  I had missed the possibility of Borgin. I look for that when I do the next re-read.

  Thanks for your theories!

• 6 JNP // Nov 30, 2005 at 12:41 am

  I actually thought that Nagini was confirmed to be a Horcrux by Dumbledore. Hmm… Yeah i’m not exactly sure how the chronological order would work as you said. Perhaps part of the horcrux spell backfired due to the very love that his mother had, and made harry a horcrux…

  but at the same time, diminished Voldemort’s powers.

  Oh and how would Nagini be an accidental 7th. Harry is something of Gryffindors that Dumbledore never found.

• 7 Travis Prinzi // Nov 30, 2005 at 12:45 am

  Perhaps I’m forgetting my details…

  I say “accidental” 7th when referring to Nagini because if LV planned to make 6 (plus himself = 7), and he died before making the Gryffindor horcrux, and he didn’t know that Harry was a horcrux, then he probably made Nagini a horcrux with Frank Bryce’s death after he returned to power. So the other 5 horcruxes + Nagini + Harry = 7, plus LV himself which makes 8 parts of his soul.

• 8 JNP // Nov 30, 2005 at 12:48 am

  Hmm, i’m really confused. Any chance you can make a quick timeline diagram. i.e.

  Horcrux 1: —-
  Horcrux 2: —

  voldemort’s powers diminiished

  Horcrux 3: —

  etc.

• 9 Travis Prinzi // Nov 30, 2005 at 12:51 am

  Not this late at night off the top of my head! Let me get back to you when I’ve had a chance to review and pull HBP out again. Forgive me if it takes a couple of days. I’ll be swamped the next few days at work.

• 10 JNP // Nov 30, 2005 at 12:52 am

  Not a problem, good talking to you, I love this stuff! It’ll be bitter-sweet when the last books out, no more guesswork!

  Thanks.

• 11 Rebecca // Dec 8, 2005 at 7:37 pm

  What if only Harry’s scar is a horcrux and not Harry himself? So that at the end of the book, when Harry looks in the mirror, he no longer sees himself with a scar…the last word of book 7….just a thought

• 12 alex the blind man // Dec 11, 2005 at 2:12 pm

  did anybody consider peter petigrews metal hand to be a horcrux he could have used the bit of the soul when he killed Cedric Digory.

• 13 Christina // Dec 17, 2005 at 10:53 pm

  I really hate to think that Harry will die at the end of it all, but I must admit, it seems like the obvious answer. As for Harry being a Horcrux, I believe he is. But one thing that still stands out in my mind is what DD says in HPHBP…in the chapter about Horcuxes: that LV failed to recognize the power of a soul that is untarnished and whole (Harry). Can Harry have a whole, untarnished soul if he is, indeed, a Horcrux? And if he is, when it is all said and done, the already-found objects themselves remain. The diary, the ring, the locket…though not living, and only damaged from the extraction of the Horcrux…are still intact. Even if Harry is indeed a Horcrux, is it possible that it can be removed from Harry and still leave him alive??

• 14 Travis Prinzi // Dec 18, 2005 at 9:06 am

  Hi Christina,
  Thanks for your comments. The alternative to the “Harry as a horcrux” theory is that it is actually Harry’s scar that is the horcrux (which Rebecca noted above). This would satisfy the concerns you mentioned (Harry’s being pure of heart) and account for the mental connection between Harry and LV.

  Something to think about anyway!

• 15 El Deano // Dec 19, 2005 at 12:07 am

  This is a rather compelling arguement. I myself believe that Harry could indeed be the last horcrux. Many of you are talking mainly about how it happened. It was probably just an accident by Voldemort. Nothing he intended. It is mentioned in the books that Voldemort has strong connections to his horcruxes but it is unlikely that he can tell if they are removed. This would explain why both Nagini and Harry both are strongly connected to him as was mentioned above by JNP.

  If Voldemort is to be destroyed won’t somebody need to finish him off? I mean even if all of the horcruxes are destroyed and Harry dies, someone will still need to kill Voldemort. This role could perhaps be fulfilled by Snape. Snape would probably be at the scene and it is not yet known whether he is loyal to Dumbledore or Voldemort. I think this will be where Snape’s loyalty is put to the test in a sort of Return of the Jedi ending.

  I have just reread the horcruxes chapter of HBP and i noticed that Dumbledore is not sure of Voldemort getting anything of Ravenclaws. He may have failed which still leaves him with six horcruxes and himself. So there would then be:

  Lord Voldemort
  Marvolos ring
  Tom Riddles diary
  The locket
  Nagini
  Hufflepuffs cup
  Harry Potter

  A total of 7. Finally Dumbledore says that using a living being as a horcrux is unadvised becuase it can think for itself. Harry could prove that theory correct in destroying himself to help stop Voldemort.

  Hope this has helped

• 16 LoonyLuna // Dec 19, 2005 at 2:18 pm

  Well…this is all interesting and i must say that i feel much more comfortable with the idea of Harry being a last Horcrux now that ive been able to read and re-read all of your comments. Often times i find myself wishing i had a pensive in which to arrange all of my ideas, but there is one that someone came close to but never quite reached, Neville Longbottom has obvious significance because he and Harry share a birthday. Maybe IF harry HAS to sacrifice himself (givin that the horcrux cannot be extracted) maybe Neville will be the one to finish Voldemort off. just a thought, maybe my details are off, please send feed back.

  Also there is the fact of the Sorting hat, he seems to fortell things that will happen. Neville Longbottom is an excellent herbologist, as is Prof. Sprout (obviously) and she is the head of Hufflepuff house. Which raises the question, why did the sorting hat place Neville in Gryffindor instead of Hufflepuff? Because it forsaw the events of the 7th book maybe?

  Also, the idea of Harry’s Scar being the last horcrux, is another scattered idea of mine and many others because i really dont think Voldemort would have accidentally and unknowingly made Harry a Horcrux and leave nothing but a significant looking scar. Its wierd and im trying to figure it out. But here is an agument, Voldemort Killed James and Lily, therefore wouldnt his soul be split twice? Maybe this is why he was diminished, he simply exploded with all these souls floating around inside of him and they had no where to go so they went straight to harry through Voldemorts significant wand, but i dont know again i keep second guessing myself, im interested to see if anyone else can fit these into thier own brain and extract something cool.

  Im sorry i have one more, the Pheonix Feathers. Harry and Voldemort are connected by them, therefore connected through faux and therefore connected to Dumbledore, the only one Voldemort ever feared, and a horcrux is made becasue a Wizard fears death, giving the idea Dumbledore will pull a Gandolf. But maybe thats just me wishfull thinking. Thanx for reading! Sorry its so long!

• 17 LoonyLuna // Dec 19, 2005 at 2:25 pm

  I HAVE ONE MORE I FORGOT SORRY!!! I told you i have too many things swimming in my head. Also some say Rowling said that if you know the Christian Story of Christ you can figure out the last book or something like that. Well after Christ died, he rose again after three days. If this is all significant (i like that word) Maybe harry will create a horcurx of himself somehow?????? I will probaly think of something else later lol, Ill try to keep up, Happy Christmas eveyone.

• 18 Christina // Dec 19, 2005 at 3:40 pm

  I read something the other day that Jo said…she said that the shape of the scar is not as significant as the location. We all know that the Avada Kedavra is usually aimed at the chest. So it is interesting that Harry’s scar is on his head. And it is also interesting that even though Harry shares some of Volemort’s thoughts and emotions, he does not share his desire for evil. Perhaps the scar signifies nothing other than the fact that Harry’s heart is pure, and that since it was love that saved him in the beginning, maybe that is why his heart was spared. So, in essence, maybe Volemort’s influence does not indicate an Horcrux at all…just the fact that Harry’s heart is whole and the curse could not kill him because of that, so only his mind was affected.

• 19 Travis Prinzi // Dec 19, 2005 at 3:46 pm

  Great thoughts, folks! LoonyLuna, you’ve actually come really close to John Granger’s very thesis about Harry’s scar being a horcrux and it being tied to the phoenix feather issue. I’m not sure if he’s comfortable with me sharing the theory here, since a group of us are working on it right now, but if he’s cool with that once it’s finished, I’ll post it here. If not, I suppose you’ll have to wait till he decides to write an article at Hogwarts Professor on it.

• 20 El Deano // Dec 20, 2005 at 10:37 pm

  There seems to be a lot of talk about harry scar. I dont think it has that much to do with the whole horcrux debate. Does anybody think my Snape theory is plausible? Its above.

• 21 Travis Prinzi // Dec 20, 2005 at 11:34 pm

  El Deano,

  A few quick reasons why the scar *might* be very relevant to the horcrux issue:

  1. The last book is centered around horcruxes, obviously, and the scar has been a consistent issue throughout the entire series.
  2. JKR has said that the last word on the last page of the last book is “scar.”
  3. Harry is described by Dumbledore as “pure of heart,” which would lead one to think Harry CAN’T be a horcrux - unless the horcrux is the scar itself, which might explain his mental connection to Voldemort, the pain he feels from the scar, and the absence of that pain in book 6 (LV using occlumency against Harry).
  4. When LV’s killing curse rebounded off Harry, we know LV was in the process of looking for objects to make horcruxes, and the Potters were attacked and killed at Godric’s Hollow. That is also where Harry will return early in the last book. It’s very likely LV planned to make a horcrux that night (HP would have been a significant murder). The killing curse hit the head, even though it is normally aimed at the chest. With the scar being on the head, it’s a possibility an “accidental” horcrux was created there in the scar.

  As for your Snape theory, it is certainly plausible if Harry dies.

  Thanks for your comments!

• 22 Glenn // Dec 21, 2005 at 5:24 pm

  Maybe this has been covered (and maybe it’s nitpicking), but I think that these horcruxs do not each have 1/7th of Voldemort’s soul.

  Assuming that splitting one’s soul means in half. So, the 1st horcrux would have 1/2, leaving 1/2 in Voldemort. The next object would have 1/4, leaving 1/4 and so on. The 7th horcrux (in Harry?) would only be 1/128th proportion then.

  Now, would that mean that each succesive horcrux is less and less powerful? Easier to destroy? Tougher/longer to regenerate from?

  I guess you could then argue that Voldamort was pretty weak (soul-wise) when he attacked Harry.

• 23 Travis Prinzi // Dec 21, 2005 at 10:30 pm

  Glenn,

  Actually, that had not been covered here, and I had never heard it before…but it makes a lot of sense.

• 24 JNP // Dec 21, 2005 at 11:13 pm

  Yeah, that’s a really interesting thought. But isn’t 1 divided by 7 equal to about 14% in each horcrux?

• 25 Travis Prinzi // Dec 21, 2005 at 11:16 pm

  Well, it wouldn’t be 7 equal parts, because they wouldn’t have been divided all at the same time. As Glenn was saying, it would go sort of like this:

  First horcrux leaves LV with 50% of his original soul.

  Second horcrux leaves LV with only 50% of the remaining 50% (25% of his original 100%). And on and on, which makes the final horcrux, as Glenn said, 1/128th.

• 26 Christina // Dec 22, 2005 at 9:30 am

  Glenn,

  What a fantastic observation about the Horcuxes!! I am sure many people have overlooked the fact that the Horcruxes were made at different times. It stands to reason that Marvolo’s ring was the most difficult…hence Dumbledore’s destroyed hand while trying to extract the part of LV soul. Perhaps if Harry (or his scar) is indeed the final Horcrux, then there is the chance that it will be fairly easy to destroy it without destroying Harry!

  I love this idea!!

• 27 suyash gupta // Dec 24, 2005 at 4:06 am

  I totally agree with varun.why would someone go
  around killing his own horcrux.It is a treamondous observation.I would also like to add something as dumbledore said it is unwise
  to make a horcrux which can think for itself
  therefore Voldemort can be killing harry for
  the same reason

• 28 Travis Prinzi // Dec 24, 2005 at 1:53 pm

  Suyash, interesting theory that Voldemort would want to kill Harry because he is a horcrux.

  I’ll once more go over the objections to the concept that if Harry is a horcrux, Voldemort would not try to kill him:

  1. If Harry (or his scar) is a horcrux, he was made one accidentally, and therefore, Voldemort did not know about it when he tried to kill Harry in Goblet of Fire.

  2. In Order of the Phoenix, LV would have learned of Harry being a horcrux.

  3. In Half-Blood Prince, LV has STOPPED trying to kill Harry. We have to wonder why.

• 29 Nikki and Leah // Jan 5, 2006 at 2:01 pm

  okay. So, think about this:
  HP2: The night that Filch found Mrs. Norris hanging from a lantern on the wall, in blood, it said beware-the chamber of secrets has been opened, in the end you determine it was opened by Ginny. So, thinking that her whole family has always been in Gryffindor, it is a possible theory that Ginny, Harry’s love, is the Gryffindor Horcrux. This could have happened during Voldemort’s take over of her body to open the chamber. (I will invistigate this farther). How could Harry be the final horcrux if we didn’t discover a piece was missing until HP5?
  I totally agree that Harry COULD be a horcrux. But now I’m thinking about the possibility of not only Ginny being the G.H., but also her being the chosen one? (more on this later, let me do my research)

• 30 Luke // Jan 9, 2006 at 6:07 pm

  Glenn’s comment is really interesting, but where does it actually say that a murderer’s soul is split in exactly two halves? And even when it does, it is rather likely that Voldemort has killed more than six times, so his soul must have split an awful lot of times. He just did not use every murder he committed to create horcruxes. So, what happened to the other fragments of his soul? They can’t have simply merged back together, can they? In Rowling’s world, that would be saying the crime of murder can be undone.

  Nevertheless, I think it is likely that Harry is a horcrux.

• 31 Travis Prinzi // Jan 9, 2006 at 10:21 pm

  Luke, there is no direct statement, of course, that the murderer’s soul is split directly in half. It must be split in some way, however, so even if it’s not directly in half, Glenn’s theory about a weakened soul makes sense.

  What happened to the other fragments of his soul seems like a key unanswered question to me! In fact, we know Dumbledore killed Grindelwald. Does this give him a split soul? (Some are even speculating that Dumbledore had a horcrux, a theory that I think is…um…wrong).

  My best guess is that a murderer’s soul remains inside, tarnished. Though I would want to say that Rowling’s world could come with some kind of healing for the truly penitent person (Snape?). After all, she does want to caution us against writing people off as necessarily evil/beyond redemption. “Prejudice” is a key theme of the novels.

  Nikki and Leah, interesting thoughts, and I’m looking forward to your putting together an argument that Ginny is in some way a horcrux. My initial reaction would be that there were no murders committed by Voldemort, so I’m not sure how he could have made Ginny into a horcrux during CoS. But fire away with your theory!

• 32 Bhaswar // Jan 11, 2006 at 12:23 pm

  I was thinking of a few things, and they all seem to point, rather sadly, to the observation that Harry might be an unintentionally created Horcrux. Here are some of the points that I would like to raise:
  1. Parseltongue, etc: How can a failed attempt at a murder due to a shield created by a third party (Lily Potter’s sacrifice) transfer Voldemort’s dearest powers to Harry, unless a little fragment of soul was transferred?

  2. The Triumphant Look on Dumbledore’s face:
  Was it because Dumbledore realised that Harry’s blood being used to resurrect Voldemort caused a somewhat reverse effect?

  3. The scar: Remember the lighting shaped crack on Marvolo Gaunt’s ring?

  4. The Only One He Ever Feared: Dumbledore had defeated Grindelwald in the 40s and had won the Order of Merlin for that. If he could defeat and probably kill Grindelwald, why could’t he do that to Voldemort? Only because the prophecy portrays Harry as the Vanquisher, would Dumbledore let this 17-year old do all he can to kill the most Evil of Wizards, rather than use his 150 years’ experience and supremacy? Unless, probably, that he had to kill Harry, and he wouldn’t particularly enjoy that….

  [My guess is that Dumbledore had (Alas!) a very good idea that Harry is a horcrux]

  Add to that the parallelism exhibited by their wands. Same core, different wood. Could that symbolically indicate their owners being related in a similar way?

  The only thing that really upsets this theory (or does it?) is the prophesy. “Either must die at the hands of the other, for neither can live while the other survives.”

• 33 Travis Prinzi // Jan 11, 2006 at 1:27 pm

  Bhaswar, interesting thoughts. I don’t think the prophecy upsets the theory, mostly because it’s not necessarily true that if Harry (or Harry’s scar) is a horcrux, he must die.

  One does have to wonder why, if Dumbledore thought Harry was a horcrux, he would have let that detail pass in their horcrux conversation.

  Based on the conversation about the prophecy, I doubt Dumbledore puts much stock in it, really. For him, it is the choice that matters, not the predictive certainty of a prophecy.

  I’ll have to look that up about the lightning shape on the ring; I hadn’t noticed that, but that could be an interesting clue.

• 34 Morganna // Jan 12, 2006 at 11:25 am

  I’ve just come across this discussion and my thoughts are all in a muddle! So many interesting concepts to consider! I may as well add a couple, don’t you think?

  1. What was it that clued Dumbledore to begin looking for Horcruxes in the first place? I remember (OotP?) when he consulted one of his instruments and muttered something like, “…in essence divided…”. I’m guessing it was in Harry’s 2nd year when he exhibited the ability to speak in Parseltongue.

  2. Extracting the Horcrux from the ring could not have been easy (Dumbledore’s resultng hand injury), either because a Horcrux automatically carries a powerful countercurse or because of some outside source of defense. I lean more towards the outside defense, based mostly upon the fact that the amulet was protected by the lake, the cursed water, and the Inferi. The problem with this theory is obvious, however: It wasn’t the real amulet, so we have no way of knowing whether the object itself (hence the ring) carries a curse if touched.

  3. Just wanted to comment that JKR has herself said that the HP books are in no way children’s books. Can’t really refute that, no matter how much we try.

  4. Lastly, I believe that the scar itself is a Horcrux, whether 1/7th, 1/8th, or 1/1000th. JKR, in her estimable way, will let us know, I’m sure. And what a bittersweet day that will be! What on earth will we talk about after that?

  I must say, it’s so nice to find these kinds of discussions. I was so very tired of reading about theories about marriages, children, and life after Voldemort!

  P.S.: Snape is innocent! (Well, as innocent as he can be, seeing he’s a complete git - signed, Harry)

• 35 Travis Prinzi // Jan 12, 2006 at 10:02 pm

  Morganna, excellent additions to the discussion, all. I think your point #1 will become particularly significant. It was also in CoS that Dumbledore affirmed Harry’s question about Voldemort putting some of himself into Harry.

  I’m still baffled, however, as to why that connection was not made at all in Book 6. It’s time for a thorough re-read of the series for me. I need to go horcrux hunting!

• 36 Bhaswar // Jan 13, 2006 at 8:43 am

  I think that trying to speculate how one’s soul divides after they commit murder is futile. It could become two halves at once, or the fragments may differ depending on the gravity of the murder. Or, the soul could be like vapour. It could have an element of life-force or Chi in it. You can’t channelise it into an external object unless you commit murder. When you do, you can send some portion of your soul into an object. Like vapour, the fragment passed, and the fragment remaining in your earthly vessel, would occupy the entire space available but get essentially diluted. The Chi content will be reduced.

• 37 Travis Prinzi // Jan 13, 2006 at 8:52 am

  I guess that doesn’t really hurt the point, though, does it? It’s still “diluted” (or weakened).

  Just for the record, I really don’t think Glenn was attempting a scientific explanation of the splitting of the soul when he initially proposed the idea.

• 38 Korg20000bc // Jan 13, 2006 at 8:55 am

  Just a theory…
  Could Snape have been aware of Harry being a horcrux?

  Could Harry be the intentional 7th horcrux of Voldemort’s. 7 being mentioned by Tom Riddle and Dumbledore as a powerful magical number that strongly appealed to Riddle. This powerful magic number may not have created a beneficial effect, and then resulted in Voldemort being blasted.

  Harry could be seen as “Something of Gryffindor’s” being in Gryffindor house.

  If Snape was one of the most trusted of Death Eaters, could he have been in the know about the making of the horcrux? Dumbledore thought that Voldemort had let the cat out of the bag when he boasted to Harry that he had gone further down the road of immortality that any other wizard. He also thought that the Death Eaters didn’t realise what it meant.

  Could Snape have been aware of this from his Death Eater days?

  My theory is that Snape is fighting his own battle against Voldemort either to destroy him or to replace him. Snape’s negative attitude towards Harry is the result of him being aware of Harry being a horcrux.

  I think, however sad, that Harry will need to take his own life to allow Snape to destroy Voldemort.

  The note that was left in the fake locket sound like Snape’s work. I just cannot figure RAB out yet…

  Sorry, my thoughts are a bit scattered.

  Matt

• 39 Travis Prinzi // Jan 13, 2006 at 9:05 am

  Matt, my first reaction is to say that it’s highly unlikely that anyone but Voldemort knows about his horcruxes (including Snape). Remember, Voldemort does not like to depend on anyone.

  Also, I don’t think Voldemort would intentionally have made Harry a horcrux, so it’s likely that knowledge of Harry as horcrux would not go all the way back to the original Death Eater days.

  However, Snape was teaching Harry occlumency, right? And he is a great Legilimens. So…it may very well be true that Snape, by having access to Harry’s mind, does indeed know that Harry (Harry’s scar) is a horcrux (if that theory is true).

  So Snape’s being aware of Harry’s status as horcrux would be quite significant. I had not thought of it before your comment. Very interesting!

• 40 Bhaswar // Jan 13, 2006 at 2:04 pm

  Tell me, if I have tipped a part of my soul in someone’s body, whether intentionally or unintentionally, how best can that person ensure that I cannot extract that part back from them. For all I know, if they kill themself, they finish their own earthly body, but release the souls. I could then easily find mine. My purpose is served without having to raise my wand. Got what I mean?
  Actually we haven’t been fortunate enough to witness the destruction of a LIVE horcrux yet in the series, so it’s really difficult to predict what the final encounter would be like. The destruction of a live horcrux is not necessarily obtained by murder. On the other hand, regaining soul from a live horcrux should very probably involve murder. One thing is sure, if Harry’s a horcrux, Voldemort is not aware of it. If he were, he needn’t have done all that elaborate “Father - Slave - Foe” stuff to get his body back. He simply could have regained his soul back from Harry, once he made certain he was there on the graveyard.

• 41 Travis Prinzi // Jan 13, 2006 at 2:51 pm

  Bhaswar, I agree with you that since we don’t know how a horcrux is destroyed, we can’t assume Harry has to die. I think suicide is out of the question in any case.

  I would agree that Voldemort would not know Harry is a horcrux up until the end of Goblet of Fire, but I think it’s highly likely he figured it out sometime in Book 5. By Book 6, Voldemort has stopped trying to kill Harry.

  He still would have needed the “Father - Slave - Foe” spell in any event, because simply retrieving a horcrux would not have given him his body back.

• 42 Korg20000bc // Jan 13, 2006 at 9:14 pm

  I’m sure that Voldemort didn’t know that Snape knew of the Horcruxes (If my theory is correct)but being a great Legilimens he could have found it out. Also, being a great occlumens he could have hidden this knowledge from Voldemort even as he hid his apparent duplicity from Dumbledore. I believe that Snape is playing his own game against Voldemort. Also, someone was very well informed about the locket horcrux, someone who seemed to know and was known by Voldemort. Who else but a Death Eater who could hide his thought from Voldemort? ie Snape.

• 43 Korg20000bc // Jan 13, 2006 at 9:28 pm

  Just a Sudden thought, the RAB signed note in the locket could be the initials of three people. Remember it was an impossible task for just one wizard to accomplish: drinking the green potion and getting the locket and escaping the inferii.

  Who could this refer to?

  Matt

• 44 Bhaswar // Jan 14, 2006 at 11:30 am

  Matt, your ideas have already been researched. There is nothing in RAB’s letter to the Dark Lord that suggests it could be written by two or more people. The use of “I” refers to a SINGULAR FIRST PERSON. But anyway, R.A.B could be ” And ” or even three names, such as, Rookwood, Avery, Bode, etc. Refer to en.wikipedia.org/R.A.B. All possibilties and various points in favour of or against them are well researched on the Wikipedia. In fact, Potter fans, Wikipedia is a surprisingly rich resource of information, and I suggest you all give it a read!

  What if R.A.B is not R.A.B at all? What if somebody took the Horcrux away and framed old Regulus? Maybe Regulus was already dead, or about to die, when somebody more intelligent took the Horcrux, and thought it would be no harm to put the blame on a meek boy about to die anyway. Somebody who doesn’t really feel for Lord Voldemort and has a dislike for the Black family, if not only for Regulus. We can’t really think of Severus Snape enough, can we? I think, knowing J.K. Rowling’s style of story-telling, R.A.B is just too simple if it’s Regulus Black.

• 45 Luke // Jan 14, 2006 at 4:05 pm

  No, no problems here; reading the comments, that is. Trying to think through the consequences of them all is quite a different thing. Wow, what a lot of mind baffling things there are about our favourite wizard!

  Staying with Matt for a while, I do think there must be something to his comment about how the horcrux could not be eliminated by just one person. This means that whoever R.A.B. is or pretends to be, has first destroyed the horcrux and then renewed the spells to safeguard it. Knowing that Dumbledore (and Harry) would come and search for it?

  Perhaps Slughorn has something to do with it. After all, he is the master potions maker and whatever Dumbledore was drinking there, it surely was strong stuff. As has been suggested elsewhere (I honestly forgot who - I would like to credit everyone, but it’s impossible)that Dumbledore hears about the horcrux on the day that the Death Eaters enter the school. Coincidence? Or did Slughorn, who I think was helping Malfoy all along, give Dumbledore this information?

  Some of the Snape-haters among you may now perhaps object that Snape, too, answers the description, even better than Slughorn. But not only am I convinced that Snape will turn out to be good, it must also be borne in mind that Malfoy tells Snape that he has better helpers than his two lousy friends (somewhere in HBP). Surely, if Snape was himslef the mighty assistant, Malfoy would not have to tell him that. So, who is it? My guess would be Slughorn. And could he be the one keeping Dumbledore away from the school all the time while the school is at the gravest peril?

  Just some thoughts…

• 46 Luke // Jan 14, 2006 at 4:18 pm

  Just one other thing, also to bring back the discussion to horcruxes again.

  Only Harry & Dumbledore & LV know about the horcruxes, presumably. But don’t you think Slughorn himself has drawn some conclusions from the fact that Dumbledore is so interested in that particular memory, though? And what is he doing carrying that memory around at Aragog’s funeral? Is “his “tie changing” action perhaps the point where he goes to collect it to willingly give it to Harry and make Dumbledore and Harry look for horcruxes? Does he know that LV has actually made horcruxes, too?
  Probably he does not know about the scar, though…

• 47 Christina // Jan 14, 2006 at 8:35 pm

  Firstly to Luke–Let us not forget that Slughorn removed the memory from his mind with his wand…that was described in the book. He had the bottles with him to aquire some very valuable acromantula venom from Aragog before they buried him.

  However, that doesn’t necessarily exclude Slughorn from his association with the Horcruxes. Perhaps he sought to destroy LV’s Horcruxes as retribution for telling LV about Horcruxes in the first place. But, there is one thing that everyone has failed to mention…Slughorn has admitted that Lily (Evans) Potter was great at potion-making. And after the journey with Harry and DD to the cave, it appears that 2 people needed to go to the cave to remove the Horcrux. DD himself said that. And, let us also not forget, that the boat could only hold ONE person of age–that means that someone under the age of 17–like a student–could ride in the boat with an adult wizard/witch. Perhaps Slughorn and Snape (also great a Potions, as addressed in HBP) or Slughorn and Lily could have extracted the Horcrux and placed the Potion over the fake Horcrux. (I think it was Snape–see comments below). And, as someone wisely mentioned above, Snape had access to 12 Grimmauld Place b/c it was the HQ for the OOtP. I honestly think that Snape was involved in obtaining the original Horcrux. It seems to me that the Potion that caused DD to relive a memory sounded very much like a plea that Snape would have made. I think Snape is the key, and that, at the very least, Lily was involved somehow.

• 48 Luke // Jan 14, 2006 at 9:26 pm

  Hmmm, Christina, sounds interesting. And I stand corrected on the Slughorn-thing.

• 49 Korg20000bc // Jan 14, 2006 at 11:00 pm

  Bhaswar,
  I agree that one person wrote the note but it was necessary that more than one wizard did the switcheroo of the locket.

  Sorry, I didn’t realise that my posts to this thread has already been researched.

  Very interesting on the Slughorn/Lily possibility. Slughorn really does seem repentant for passing on horcrux information to Tom Riddle and It would seem to fit that he would try to make amends, especially if one of his favourites (Lily) was slain to help create one. Pretty strong motivation. But is there anyone else that would assist Slughorn to do this (Snape) but be young enough to pass across the lake in the boat(?)?

  Matt

• 50 Travis Prinzi // Jan 15, 2006 at 7:22 am

  Very interesting speculations! I think we’ll definitely learn more about Lily’s role in all of this, as well as Slughorn’s, in the last book. A few quick comments:

  1. I tend to lean towards the idea that Slughorn is evil, in league with Voldemort whether by pressure or voluntarily. Even if he’s not, he doesn’t seem the type to have the courage to attempt a horcrux destruction himself. I could be wrong on this, of course, as guilt does soemtimes drive people to extreme actions.

  2. I think it’s highly unlikely the R.A.B. is fake. Rowling is definitely into narrative misdirection, but the interview referenced in the wikipedia article Bhaswar pointed to is telling. Rowling wants people to inquire into R.A.B., and it wouldn’t make much sense if R.A.B. actually refers to some other person with entirely different initials about whom we could not possibly speculate.

  Good thoughts, folks. Keep it up!

• 51 Christina // Jan 15, 2006 at 7:55 pm

  Travis: Quite right…RAB, although obvious, could very well be Regulus. Very little is known about him, and perhaps there is a connection with some of the other folks we mentioned.

  As for Slughorn being “bad”, it is hard to tell. While one could certainly argue that he would not have the, um, testicular fortitude to track down and destroy LV’s Horcruxes, perhaps his old pal, Felix Felices, could have provided some liquid courage. Or maybe he is really on LV’s side…I am just really unsure about him at this point. I really feel that the entire cave scene has provided clues that will be HUGE in the next book. It just seems odd to me that Slughorn had very extensive knowledge of the dark arts in the first place, or he would not have even known about Horcruxes…there is definitely something in his past that JKR is keeping from us for now.

  For a VERY interesting look into the last book, please see this website: http://www.hogwartsprofessor.com and click on the link for Harry Potter and The Alchemist’s Cell: Alchemical Stray-Thoughts on the Final Chapter in the Harry Potter Saga

  It talks about how the last book will return to the first book, as JKR has already said, and the author predicts, based on his research of Alchemy, that Hagrid will be the sacrificial death in the last book. Please take a look at it!! Maybe there will be more info that can help us decide whether Harry (or his scar) are really Horcruxes!!

• 52 korg20000bc // Jan 16, 2006 at 1:12 am

  Whatever the case, Dumbledore wanted Slughorn for something in his past (just the horcrux memory?). This reason was more important than Snape remaining at Hogwarts. Dumbledore was aware of Voldemort’s curse on the DADA teaching position. By putting Snape in this role Dumbledore limited the time that Snape was to remain at Hogwarts. It seems that sacrificing Snape as a Hogwarts professor to gain Slughorn was a very deliberate move on Dumbledore’s part. It couldn’t have been just to find out about the horcruxes as Dumbledore had already found and destroyed the ring. Slughorn was going to some lengths to avoid Dumbledore in fact he stated that the lengths he went to when Dumbledore and Harry visited was not to avoid deatheaters but specifically to throuw Dumbledore off his scent. It was the lack of the dark mark that showed Dumbledore it was a ruse. Can only Death Eaters fire off the Dark Mark?

  Matt

• 53 Travis Prinzi // Jan 16, 2006 at 11:00 am

  Christina, yes, I highly recommend Hogwarts Professor as well, and I’ve referenced that article several times here.

  I’ll have to re-read it, though. I recall in my correspondence with John that Rubeus Hagrid doesn’t have to die in the Red Stage (see my comment in “The Finality of Death” comments section).

• 54 Christina // Jan 16, 2006 at 3:33 pm

  Great article, Travis…John Granger is a great author and thinker and, being a Christian who constantly has to refer “Harry-Haters” to his book, I am always very excited to see what he perceives from the HP books. I do hope you are right…that the red stage doesn’t necessarily have to end. I just love Hagrid!!

  Christina

• 55 korg20000bc // Jan 22, 2006 at 7:52 pm

  Do you think it a possibility that Harry was able to cross the lake in the cave because, being a possible horcrux, the magical security set up by Voldemort recognised the piece of his soul and assumed it was Voldemort. Voldemort himself would have appeared the same way ie, a fragment of soul? But how was Dumbledore able to cross at the same time? Maybe the provision was that anyone who was crossing with Voldemort already had permission to be there.

  Matt

• 56 Christina // Jan 23, 2006 at 7:50 pm

  I am not sure about the cave thing, Matt…IF Harry is, indeed, a Horcrux, then RAB, whoever that is, must be one also, or he/she would not have been able to extract the real Horcrux. Harry was able to cross b/c he was 17 yet…he had not come of age in the wizarding world. I believe something is even mentioned in the cave chapter that the magic that protected the cave didn’t recognize Harry as being there b/c Voledemort didn’t think that anyone under wizarding age would be powerful enough to even find the cave, much less take and destroy his Horcruxes.

• 57 korg20000bc // Jan 24, 2006 at 7:50 am

  Christina,
  I see what you’re saying about the cave situation. But what we read in the chapter is just conjecture on Dumbledore’s part. It’s the best he can do to explain it off the top of his head. Harry at age 16 seems to be already much more powerful than many “of age” wizards. I think it unlikely that Voldemort’s enchantment was just age based - “If you’re seventeen or over, only one at a time.”

  Matt

• 58 Christina // Jan 24, 2006 at 9:58 pm

  Matt:

  I think another part of it was the fact that Harry was in the boat with a very powerful wizard. DD says that Harry’s magic probably doesn’t register very high next to his, and that is probably quite true. And if the magic in the cave could recognize Harry as being part of Lord Voldemort, then why would the Inferi try to attack him when he touched the water? Surely if they thought it was LV they wouldn’t have tryed to attack him. I really think that JKR was trying to help us figure out that 2 people could have taken the original Horcrux…one of them possibly being a student (that opens up a whole realm of possibilities of collaborations with people that we know…Snape, Lily Potter, Regulus, etc…). I could be wrong…I guess we’ll have to wait and see. And the wait is killing me!!

  Christina

• 59 korg20000bc // Jan 25, 2006 at 2:21 am

  Christina,
  Excellent points!

  I agree with you that JKR is trying to set up the wizard and student/house-elf combination taking the horcrux.

  I think the infiri were ordered to attack whoever had the horcrux, even Voldemort. Why attack Voldemort? Because he created them and could order them to stop. Also, I don’t think the green potion would have had the same effect Voldemort.

  Alternatively, Voldemort could have intended to force a death eater or some innocent to drink the potion if ever he needed to retrieve the horcrux.

  I am probably wrong, though. Like you, I am waiting in pain.

  Matt

• 60 Mara // Jan 28, 2006 at 5:37 am

  If Harry is a Horcrux (I think he is), I don’t agree that it would ever be done unintentionally. It’s such a repetitive theme in the books that a spell means nothing without really meaning it, from Wingardium Leviosa with Flitwick to the Unforgiveables, and even Apparating. Why would it be any different to commit one of the most evil acts in the wizarding world? The creation of a Horcrux is said to be a terribly violent and unnatural act.

  This being said, I still think Harry is a Horcrux. We can all agree that the circumstances made it plausible, yes? Voldemort had just killed James and Lily, even though he said she needn’t be killed too (I think there is significance to him only needing one of Harry’s parents). I think one of the most intelligent albeit evil wizards ever would see the brilliance of placing a piece of his soul in the baby that is prophecized to kill him, because then while Harry still lives so will LV.

  I haven’t chosen a reason why LV lost his powers/body yet, because I’ve got a few options.

  1. Creating a living Horcrux isn’t such a great idea after all, or if you do agree that Nagini certainly is one, that a Human Horcrux is bad.

  2. Because seven is such a powerful number in the wizarding world, achieving seven Horcruxes has crazy reprocussions.

  3. The love that protects Harry (Lily’s sacrifice) caused some sort of retaliatory effect against LV.

  People say that LV wouldn’t try to kill Harry if he’d made him a Horcrux. Not true! When he made Harry one, LV had not yet experienced the half-life that’s said to be worse than the leanest ghost. But once he had and then returned, he’s faced with a choice. He can kill Harry and the 1/7 (or 1/100, whatever you want to think) of his soul that is concealed within him - hopefully before Harry gets to the other Horcruxes, i.e. ASAP! - and deal with only having 4/7 of his whole soul (I’m not even going to pretend I can factor the complex equation for that one). OR he can have the majority if not all of his other Horcruxes destroyed in the hope that the one left in Harry will work.

  As for what I actually think the Horcruxes are….

  1. Diary
  2. Ring
  3. Locket
  4. Hufflepuff Cup
  5. Something Ravenclaw
  6. Harry

  I think that he tried to use the idea of all the houses. If you want to count Harry as Gryffindor, fine. If not, then I’ll say that LV was going for a Gryffindor one and then heard half the prophecy and used Harry instead. Does Nagini really have to be one? I think her connections with LV are strong enough (all Slytherin connotations, Parselmouth, not to mention the Imperius Curse as well) to justify all the things people say make her a Horcrux.

  Respones?

• 61 korg20000bc // Jan 28, 2006 at 11:36 pm

  Hello,
  Do we really know if Voldemort used Avada Kedavra on Harry?

  It seems that it has only been assumed that Voldemort went to Godric’s Hollow to slay the Potters and that he was blasted when he tried to finish off Harry.

  We really only know that he went with the purpose of Killing James and then doing something to Harry. As Voldemort says, Lily needn’t have been killed. But he did want her to give Harry over for some purpose.

  My suggestion is that Harry as heir of Gryffindor (living in Godric’s (Gryffindor)Hollow) is an excellent place to hide a Horcrux. Voldemort is ensuring that as long as his nemesis is alive- so is he. He cannot concieve that someone (Harry or Dumbledore) would sacrifice their life to bring about the destruction of Voldemort. Just like Sauron in LOTR cannot concieve of anyone wanting to destroy the One Ring so Voldemort cannot believe that anyone would die on purpose. Death is the thing that Voldemort fears above anything else (stated by Rowling as how a boggart would appear in front of Voldemort) and views it as the ultimate failure. He thinks that he has ensured his survival better than with any other horcrux.

  ?

  Matt

• 62 Christina // Jan 29, 2006 at 9:52 pm

  I find these theories very interesting, and they answer a question that I have had for a while…why DID LV tell Lily that she didn’t need to die?? Since when has LV spared anyone?? I know JKR has said that a lot will be revealed about Lily Potter in the last book, so I think this: either the theories above are true and LV used James’ death to create the Horcrux and chose Harry to be the Horcrux, OR there is some reason (which we will earn in the last book) that LV didn’t want to kill Lily (exceptional skills in Potions, etc)in order to use her in his plans.

  But I do have a question…can’t the Ministry tell what spells have been used in a place? They could always detect the spells Harry used (maybe not who was using them…he was falsely blamed for a spell that Dobby actually performed). I may be entirely wrong, but I swore I have read that there is a way to tell what spells have been used.

  One more thing that stands out to me…I hope someone will be able to expound on…Am I the only one that thinks that LV possibly did a silent spell when he went to visit DD to ask him (again) for the DADA position? Remember when Harry was going to shout out a warning when they were in the Pensieve…he said he thought he saw LV go for his wand…does anyone think that maybe LV used that opportunity to do the spell that would place his soul in the Sword of Gryffindor in DD’s office?? If he had committed a murder before, then gone to DD’s office, he could have cast the spell then (if we only KNEW how that spell worked!!). Anyone else see anything here that they think was a hint by JKR about something significant???

• 63 Travis Prinzi // Jan 29, 2006 at 10:39 pm

  For everyone reading this, my initial responses to Mara are in the post “Horcruxes: A Summary, where she posted the same arguments.

  Christina, why Lily didn’t have to die has indeed been a matter of speculation. My initial theory was that Lily did not have to die because Snape (who told LV about the prophecy) was in love with her (though I’m also willing to entertain the theory that it was Pettigrew, not Snape, would loved Lily).

  I do not believe that the Ministry can know exactly who cast what spell, given the Harry/Dobby incident. But my guess is that LV is powerful enough a wizard to hide anything he does from the MoM.

  As for Tom Riddle’s wand motion in Dumbledore’s office, I do think this is an interesting clue. My hesitation about saying he cast a horcrux spell on the sword is that Dumbledore was quite certain the sword was safe, and it’s rare that he’s wrong about something. It’s quite likely that Dumbledore would have known if LV created a horcrux right there in his own office.

• 64 Ludi // Jan 30, 2006 at 5:34 pm

  Forgive me if I come out with anything idiotic here, I’m a fairly new arrival to the HP world and pretty much a virgin on the HP internet scene, so please don’t be harsh! ^^;

  korg20000bc, thanks for pointing out that we don’t really know if it was the Avada Kedavra curse that was really performed on Harry in Godric’s Hollow.

  At first I was having a bit of trouble with it, for the following reason. In Book 4, LV states that the reason why he lost his body that day was because when he tried to kill Harry the “curse was deflected by the foolish woman’s [Lily's] sacrifice, and it rebounded upon me.” He could of course be lying, but why would he lie about something like that? And if the spell he was performing was the Horcrux spell, how then did he manage to lose his body?

  Then, I read on the Harry Potter Fan Zone that in Book 7, JKR will be revealing that there was someone else in Godric’s Hollow present at the time James and Lily were murdered. And suddenly it occured to me that perhaps LV did indeed go to Godric’s Hollow with the express purpose of performing the Horcrux spell on Harry, and then after he did so, that other person present may have been responsible for destorying LV’s body.

  Of course, I’m not entirely convinced of this argument… It doesn’t completely explain why LV would lie about the events of that day, but it is a theory nonetheless. I guess we’ll have to wait and see how it all pans out.

  As for Harry being a horcrux, it is indeed an attractive idea, and Snape’s warning to the Death Eaters not to kill harry because he “belongs to the Dark Lord” is indeed intriguing. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts on the subject.

  -Ludi

• 65 korg20000bc // Jan 30, 2006 at 6:08 pm

  Hello Ludi,
  I don’t know if it is my place to do this but, welcome!
  I don’t think that anyone who posts here would would be harsh with anyone.
  It’s a good idea you have. It does seem right that there was someone else with Voldemort in Godric’s Hollow- possibly Snape or Pettigrew. But it would need to be somone extremely bold in case it didn’t work. Like Verbal Kint said of Kaizer Soze in The Usual Suspects- “How do you shoot the Devil in the back…? What if you miss?!”

  I think we are told that Hagrid was first on the scene for the good guys and pulled Harry out of the burning house, al la Garrion in the Belgariad. Perhaps we’ll learn more from him in the coming book.

  Tom Riddle’s wand motion in Dumbledore’s office seemed to me to be when he cursed the DADA teaching position.

  Matt

• 66 Mara // Jan 30, 2006 at 11:17 pm

  Christina; The Ministry can’t tell spells that are done in a magic household (they catch Harry b/c he’s in a Muggle one). I think we’re on to something with why Lily didn’t have to die though, and I’ll have to re-read the 2nd DD/LV interview again.

  Travis; LV doesn’t understand love, why would he let Lily live just because one of his minions loved her?

  Ludi; What if the curse LV was referring to in the graveyard was the Horcrux curse and not Avada Kendavra?

  korg20000bc; Matt, sometime I would love to be sparring buddies with you on this! We seem to think along the same lines of thought!

• 67 Travis Prinzi // Jan 31, 2006 at 12:11 am

  To all who commented on the AK vs. horcrux curse: I’m not sold on that theory by any means, but I think it does raise an interesting possibility. I need to re-read all the times that the attempt on Harry’s life is mentioned and see if we’re off on the wrong path here.

  In any event, what IS important is that Harry will be making a trip to Godric Hollow in the beginning of the last book. An HP discussion group in which I participate has frequently noted Harry’s odd lack of curiosity, i.e., unwillingness to ask a lot of questions about what happened that night or about his family in general. This is all beginning to change for Harry, and the trip to Godric’s Hollow should provide us with some important answers.

  MaraVoldemort does not understand love, but he does reward the faithful service of his Death Eaters. If it’s Snape who loved Lily, it would have been a reward for discovering the prophecy. If Pettigrew, a reward for revealing the location of the Potters.

  I do think Snape or Pettigrew was there that night at Godric’s Hollow, and I lean toward Pettigrew.

  LudiThank you for the kind words. I try very hard to keep conversation both respectful and intelligent here. I am very grateful to all of you who keep it that way!

• 68 korg20000bc // Jan 31, 2006 at 5:22 am

  Mara,
  OK, sparring budies it is!

  You point, I punch.

  Of course I don’t really know, but I expect that a back-firing horcrux creation would be pretty devastating to the caster.

  Matt

• 69 Ludi // Jan 31, 2006 at 7:48 am

  First off, thanks muchly for the welcomes.

  I guess we don’t know enough about how horcruxes are cast, or what kind of effect they have on a living being to make even an educated guess at the moment. But having reflected on the situation, it does make me wonder what Lily’s part to play was in all this?? Say LV had really gone there to perform the Horcrux spell on Harry - would Lily’s sacrifice have been to prevent turning Harry into a Horcrux then, rather than to prevent his death? And would that sacrifice actually have worked? i.e. Harry is still a horcrux and her sacrifice was in vain (apart of course, from her love, which now flows through Harry’s veins and LV’s, which I suppose is going to be of great importance in Book 7). Something about this scenario is becoming less plausible to me… Something doesn’t seem to fit. :/

  As to the witness at Godric’s Hollow - I’d guess it’d have to be Snape or Pettigrew too. Travis it’s interesting that you mentioned that LV could’ve been willing to spare Lily in order to give her as a reward to Snape. If it’s indeed the case that Snape loved Lily, then her death could be a reason why Snape might have ultimately turned against LV. Hmmm.

  At any rate, I’m having a good time reading this… Seeing your ideas is helping me formulate my own… Keep it coming!

  -Ludi

• 70 Travis Prinzi // Jan 31, 2006 at 10:38 am

  Ludi, I think you’re right. The more we flesh out this theory of a backfired horcrux spell rather than AK curse, it doesn’t seem to fit very well (though I’m not willing to entirely rule it out). I don’t think Lily jumped in front of any curse aimed at Harry. I think LV pointed the AK curse directly at Lily when she refused to move away.

• 71 Ludi // Jan 31, 2006 at 11:04 am

  Hmm, of course, I forgot about that. Sometimes I wish I had the patience to go and write this all out so that I could piece it all together bit by bit without forgetting minor details… or indeed, have my own pensieve. Unfortunately, I don’t have the time or the brain capacity.

  I do like the idea of a backfired horcrux spell, but on the other hand I get the feeling that JKR has set up the idea that Lily’s love is now running through LV’s veins and this is Harry’s key to destroying him… Dumbledore seems to want to impress this point upon Harry so much that he even starts to show a rare display of impatience, even anger… It certainly fits more that rebounding horcrux spells at the moment.

  -Ludi

• 72 Christina // Jan 31, 2006 at 11:48 am

  I am a firm believer that IF anyone was with LV, it was Snape …he was the one that told him about the prophecy, and we all know of his VERY apparent disdain for James. I also am of the belief that Snape’s memory is the one that DD experienced in the cave. If Snape was rewarded for the prophecy info, and promised Lily as his reward from LV, then Snape would certainly accompany him to Godric’s Hollow. Snape would, then, have a VERY good reason to turn from LV. And then when he discovered that LV was still “alive”, he vehemently denied any deep feelings for that “Mudblood” Lily Potter (as he once called her) so as to keep his pretend allegience to LV.

  I really think DD trusted Snape implicitly b/c he know of his love for Lily, and knew also that he despises LV b/c he killed Lily. Snape is going to play a HUGE part in this last book. And, as John Granger points out in his website…Severus Snape sounds a LOT like Sever A Snake…

  And, Ludi, I agree…I don’t think that Harry was an INTENTIONAL Horcrux (if he is one at all).

  There has been alot of speculation that Harry’s one feature that was his mother’s…his eyes…will be the thing that Snape sees in Harry and remember his love for Lily (if he, indeed, did love her).

  Does anyone else wonder if JKR reads these sites and laughs hysterically at our obsessive (and probably erroneous) prognostications?

• 73 Travis Prinzi // Jan 31, 2006 at 1:06 pm

  Christina, quick counterpoint to Snape telling LV that he loves Lily, and Snape being with him that night:

  If Snape did reveal this to LV, it’s highly unlikely that LV would trust Severus again, even if he tried to shrug it off and pretend he didn’t care for her when LV returned.

  Agreed on the idea that Harry’s having his mother’s eyes will be important to the last book in some way.

  I doubt JKR has ever found this little site in particular, but indeed, I’m sure she laughs a lot at our crazy theories. Actually, the theories proposed here are pretty tame (and many at least reasonable) compared to the wild speculations of some websites. You all have done a good job of at least sticking to what we already know from the first 6 books and building theories from there.

• 74 matt.w // Jan 31, 2006 at 3:01 pm

  Has snape not played his role? when we look at other characters who have yet to play the role, is there any more room in the last book for snapes role to be big. Jk has hinted time and time again the roles of both neville and ginny, both have major events ahead and only one book to perform in. maybe Jk has done with Snape, i personally think (hope) he is the first to go.

  anyways thanks x

• 75 Travis Prinzi // Jan 31, 2006 at 3:28 pm

  matt.w, Snape has been set up as a central figure in the series and key to many of JKR’s themes. Rather than getting knocked off early, I think Snape will be a huge part of Book 7 (and yes, I am pretty firmly in the “Snape is good” camp).

• 76 korg20000bc // Feb 1, 2006 at 8:07 am

  Check these our
  http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/16/1619.html
  http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/16/1616.html
  The lightning bolt scar may be an indication of the defence that Harry has from his mother’s self-sacrifice rather than a wound from Voldemort’s curse.

  If Lily’s protection was in effect when Voldemort (possibly) horcruxed Harry it probably didn’t take effect then backfired- or possibly it did take effect though Harry was not under Voldemort’s dominion, like Nagini appears to be ie. completely loyal and subserviant. So it may be possible that Lily’s sacrifice reduced but didn’t eliminate the effects of the (possible) horcruxing of Harry.

  The more I think about the Harry is horcrux issue the less water it seems to hold.

  Matt

• 77 Morganna // Feb 1, 2006 at 9:14 am

  Snape, Ginny, Hagrid, Ron, Hermione, Voldemort, Harry. All will have MAJOR roles in book 7, I think. It’s going to be 1000+ pages, at least! I love these discussions! I’ll read one comment and think, ‘Yeah, that makes sense!’ Then I’ll read another, sometimes opposing thought and think, ‘Well, yeah, that makes sense, too.’ I even came up with a few ideas myself and lo! found it expressed just a minute later as I continued to read. So I’ll just say this for now. Snape is far more honorable than some think, and I believe he is - and always will be - Dumbledore’s man.

• 78 korg20000bc // Feb 2, 2006 at 5:27 pm

  Umm,
  I made a post here the other day and it seems to have been erased.

  I hope that I didn’t upset anyone or do anything against your rules, Travis.

  If possible, could you let me know the reasons?

  Thanks

  Matthew

• 79 korg20000bc // Feb 2, 2006 at 5:33 pm

  Madness,
  Now it’s visible to me when I get to this page through the “book 7 speculations” link.

  Sorry about that.

  Matt

• 80 Travis Prinzi // Feb 3, 2006 at 9:46 am

  It’s all good. Sometimes there’s a hiccup in the comments, and sometimes comments get held for moderation that don’t need to be. Once I accidentally deleted a comment I didn’t need to. If ever one of y